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Shootin' Saturday Night Reposted: Honky Tonk Man & Raven

Posted by AWC on

Reposted From July Or Some Shit

Welcome to another edition of Shootin’ Saturday Night. I know I promised an Iron Sheik SSN, but I have decided to do something a little different with that than just a shoot recap. I had planned to put it out a few weeks ago.....and then Chris Benoit went on a rampage and everybody got caught up in that. But now that that story seems to have cooled down, there’s some nuisances that are bugging me about the project that I’ve been trying to correct when I have the chance and I’m still working on those. So next time (hopefully!) you’ll get your Sheiky. But you really should cop that shoot because it is one of the greatest things ever captured on DVD.

But anyway, this time out I’ll bring to you Raven & Honky Tonk Man’s Face Off. This is different from a shoot, it’s just two of the coolest motherfuckers in wrestling sitting around and shooting the shit for almost 3 hours. So let’s get to it!

Raven starts off the DVD by putting Honky over as the greatest IC champ ever and then asks him if it’s true that he refused to drop the belt to Randy Savage in 1988. HTM says Ted Dibiase started that rumor, telling people he was booked to win the Wrestlemania 4 tournament but that Honky refused to job the IC belt to Savage so Vince changed plans to give Savage the world title at WM4 to keep him happy. Honky: “I don’t see why he was mad, he got the same perks as the world champ....” Raven: “I thought he gave up Percs when he found religion?”

The story according to Honky goes that he and Savage had a huge feud going that was selling out arenas as the second tier house show act as much as Hogan-Andre was on the first tier. But he got paranoid on what a big loss to Savage was going to do to his career, and at the same time was given a good offer by WCW and Jim Barnett instructed him not to drop the IC belt on television because they wanted him to come in looking strong. Jimmy Hart found out he was planning on leaving and begged him to stay with the WWF and that he should explain to Vince that he got a WCW offer because Vince might give him a better deal to stay. That ended up being a horrible idea, because the WWF was at the height of their 1980s power at the time, so Vince told Honky to fuck off. He thought the WWF was crazy for not just taking the belt off of him, but letting him know he was going to be pushed way down the card after the loss as well, because he was drawing them as much money as Andre The Giant was as a heel. Savage never thanked him for inadvertently getting him a WWF world title reign, but at the same time Ted Dibiase has never addressed Honky on the issue.

Raven brings up that one thing HTM did that no one else in this era does is spend a lot of money on their outfits so they stand out. Honky agrees they need to start doing that again, because everybody seems to look the same these days while he created an original wrestling look with suits that cost him anywhere between $3,000 and $10,000. In the 80s WWF nearly everyone had a look that stood out but he laments that a lot of wrestlers he sees on the indie scene aren’t dressing any different than the fans in jeans and a t-shirt. Raven says he tells the young guys in TNA they need to start investing in outfits that make them stand out if they expect to make it but very few people listen to him. HTM thinks that’s crazy and compares it to businessmen on Wal Street buying nice suits to make themselves look good for business.

HTM didn’t see much of ECW because it didn’t come on in Memphis, but when he traveled to the east coast he’d catch it and had huge problems with the lack of selling. One of the first ECW matches he ever saw was Rob Van Dam vs. Sabu and he hated that they’d do 25 chair shots without selling one of them, only looking to get to the next spot and now all the young wrestlers do that. Raven agrees that the lack of selling was horrible for wrestling but adds in his matches he’d keep the spots to a minimum but he’d make them count. But the guys in the X Division who were inspired to wrestle by watching ECW have continued the no-selling legacy and Raven has made it his mission to get them to stop it (mission unaccomplished....) He can’t understand why wrestlers can’t grasp the drama that comes from selling is what makes a good match. HTM says if you’re going to do hardcore wrestling you have to do “controlled hardcore” like Terry Funk because you get more drama out of seeing Terry Funk sell a hardcore spot than just moving on to the next one like it was nothing.

One thing that Raven finds as annoying as hardcore wrestling is the new trend of Strong Style Wrestling. He and his friends all agree that there’s nothing impressive about that style because anybody can stiff someone for real, but the impressive art comes from making it look stiff when it really isn’t, so he’s bored by ROH. Honky thinks they need to learn that they don’t need to bother with stiffing the hell out of each other if they’d learn to sell properly by learning body movement and facial expressions. Raven again tells the story of Bill Goldberg explaining to him the reason he refuses to sell for anybody is because in a real fight he wouldn’t sell and how lame that idea was.

The mention of Goldberg reminds HTM of Bret Hart and he says he wants to take a moment to talk about comments Bret made about him. He says that Bret told people that he hated working with Honky Tonk Man because “he never worked stiff enough....Hey Bret, who would you rather work a program with? Me who never hurt you.....or Goldberg that gave you one kick to the fucking head and gave you a seizure?” Honky makes a crack saying he liked working with Bret because he was easy to follow seeing as how he wrestled the same match every night. Raven thinks it’s hilarious that Bret called out Ric Flair for repeating the same match but every wrestling fan knows Bret is guilty of the same thing. Honky says that Flair shot on him too, claiming that HTM was only a main eventer because he was handpicked by Hogan to run the second tier towns, which he thinks is stupid because he had been main eventing 12 years in territories before his WWF stint. He also found it hilarious that Flair buried the Hulk Hogan and Brutus Beefcake relationship when he knows that Arn Anderson is his version of Brutus Beefcake. “Arn Anderson wouldn’t have been dogshit if it wasn’t for you! He was so far up your ass you couldn’t breathe!” Raven says that every star has a version of Brutus Beefcake and that you should try to help your friends out. Honky says that Steve Austin had Brian Lee, Shawn Michaels had Kevin Nash and Triple H, Scott Hall had Sean Waltman, and he was Joel LeDuc’s.

You Know You Want Him In Your Posse!

Honky claims that networking in wrestling is dead because in the territory days you’d look after your friends and get them work when you went to a territory if it was good, pointed out that The Bushwhackers helped him get territory jobs. Raven says he always made sure his best friends like Sandman, Johnny Swinger, and Disco Inferno jobs. But he was very good friends with Edge at one point and when Vince was jobbing Raven out to everyone he asked Edge if he could talk to Vince about working a program together, but Edge blew him off because he felt Raven threatened his spot. Also Edge was best friends with Johnny Swinger and wouldn’t do anything about getting Swinger a WWE try out either. Honky says when he was in the WWF everybody that newcomers knew from working territories together wouldn’t even speak to them anymore because they were so paranoid about keeping their jobs but in the territory days they would help each other out. Raven thinks the worst example of that was Rip Oliver who booked and was the top draw for Portland’s territory getting a WWF deal that lasted only a few shows before getting fired and when he went back to Portland they wouldn’t give him his booking or wrestling spots back but his friend Roddy Piper could have spoken up and gotten Vince to keep him around but didn’t. Raven says the best guy in the industry for helping his friends out is DDP, who gave countless friends WCW jobs when he befriended Eric Bischoff and had influence with him. One thing that pissed HTM off was Hogan never stood up for him when he was let go by WCW in 1994. He confronted Hogan about it because he thought they were on good terms but Hogan lied to him and said there was nothing he could do about it even though everyone knows the sway he held over Eric Bischoff.

On drugs in wrestling: Honky thinks that steroid abuse is going to hurt you in the long run because he’s seen countless wrestlers have a brief run because of their chemically-added body mass but have it all end quickly when they keep tearing muscles, and that you can always spot the juicers by the amount of muscle tears they suffer in their careers (sup Triple H & Batista?) Raven thinks there’s a difference between “steroid use and steroid abuse” that in small doses steroids can be great for you as a wrestler, but when guys go overboard on them to become 300 pounds of muscle their careers end because steroid use makes you injury prone. HTM says he briefly used steroids but was never interested in being as big as Hulk Hogan “so I never abused them.....although I abused a lot of other things.”

On n00bz in wrestling: Both men agree that they are more disrespectful to veterans than in any other era in wrestling. HTM says that guys with 9 matches in their careers will come to him demanding that they lay out the match, and that he could never imagine doing that when he worked with Lou Thesz as a rookie because he respected the veterans so much. Raven says that because there’s no territories guys can be wrestling on indies for 10 years but still have less than 100 matches so they should shut up also. Raven thought it was funny when Taz would lecture newer guys in ECW about not paying their dues when he knew for a fact Taz mislead everybody about his work because for his first 5 years in wrestling he had less than 10 matches. “And one time when Kevin Sullivan gave Taz a suplex he had an orgasm when he landed.”


Would Honky accept a WWE Hall Of Fame spot? He says that he has been on the list of 28 names that they narrow down to 5 every year, but he is leery of agreeing to it because they have demanded the rights to his trademarks and have also put a limit on what he can do on the indie circuit (namely running his own shows.) Honky wants something like a road agent or advisor job to agree to sign away that much of his likeness to the WWE, because he doesn’t think the legends contract would be worth it.

On the wave of Christians in wrestling popularized by Shawn Michaels. Honky first noticed it with Greg Valentine and when he asked him what he changed as a Christian Greg told him “Well, I stopped double booking myself.” HTM also had a run-in with a sober, born again Marty Jannetty during a tour of Scotland. Jannetty was going on and on about how great it was to be sober, but then when he found out Honky had a bottle of Bell’s whiskey back in his hotel room he came to him repeatedly over the course of the night asking for shots due to various reasons (back pain, insomnia, ect.) Then on the car ride to the show he got some Codeine pills from Honky and Honky told him if he took the pills he wasn’t going to give him any whiskey because he still had to wrestle in a few hours. But Jannetty didn’t listen to him and took his whiskey and sure enough passed out. Honky and the promoter had to wake him up and make him puke so he could still wrestle that night. So he’s not sure how Christianity is working out for him. Another questionable Christian is Ted Dibiase becoming a minister, bashing Vince as being one of the most immoral people in entertainment and then taking a job with him. Honky ran into one of the people who goes to Ted’s church and asked him how his followers accept that Ted is accepting money from a man he branded evil. The follower said that it was okay because Ted was “working to change the WWE from within.” Raven and Honky both think that’s hilariously stupid.

And now Raven and Honky Tonk Man will take a look at some of the “Scumiest Stories In Wrestling” that was made famous of the Death Valley Driver message board a few years ago, adding their insights into whether the stories are true or not. Raven reads the questions and chooses to skip over the ones he doesn’t want to bury anybody with.

#1 Kevin Sullivan vacations at nudist colonies
HTM: Thinks it’s probably true from the time they spent as tag team partners years ago.
Raven: Thinks it’s true because Sullivan had a lot of crazy fashions like wearing sweat pants and cowboy boots every day in WCW.

#2 Tommy Rich Bleached His Pubic Hair
HTM: If he did it wasn’t intentionally.
Raven: Thinks it’s true because “the drapes didn’t match the carpet.” (Ya gotta keep kayfabe, right?)

#3 Tommy Rich Gave A Blowjob To Jim Barnett For The NWA Title
HTM: Thinks it’s definitely false because Tommy Rich was over enough to get the title on his own merits. Honky thinks Rich was the Hulk Hogan of his time.
Raven: Also believes it’s false because it sounds like a rumor a jealous wrestler would start who didn’t get a push.

#4 Virgil Got Hired In The WWE Because Pat Patterson Was Impressed With His Big Dick
HTM: He caught him jerking off two handed in the showers one night so he thinks it‘s probably possible.
Raven: He has seen Virgil’s dick first hand and also thinks it’s true. He says that one time he was talking to Virgil and he said having a massive dick isn’t as good as it sounds because out of the nearly 200 women he had had sex with he could only put his dick in all the way into 2 women.

#5 Gene Kiniski Bought Kevin Von Erich A Hooker In Las Vegas When He Was 12
HTM: Thinks it could be true because most Canadians he knows lost their virginity a lot younger than the Americans he knows so Gene would probably help Kevin out in getting laid young.
Raven: “It’s probably true because he paid the hooker in Canadian money and got her cheaper.”

#6 Kerry Von Erich Killed A Cat Backstage By Tossing A Saw Blade At It
Raven: Thinks it’s possibly true because Kerry was a talented discus thrower.
HTM: “Yeah, but he couldn’t read a cue card, though.”

#7 The Brooklyn Brawler Is Pat Patterson’s Boyfriend
HTM: During his WWF run he saw no evidence that that is true.
Raven: Also didn’t seen any proof while he was with the WWE.

#8 The Rock n Roll Express Walked In On Jimmy Valiant Jerking Off Under A Glass Table As A Hooker Shits On It. Ricky Throws Up And Leaves While Robert Stays To Watch
Raven: Thinks it’s true.
HTM: Thinks Ricky would have liked it and wouldn’t have left.

#9 Dusty Rhodes Had Baby Doll Fired For Marrying Sam Houston
Raven: Dusty admitted to him once that it’s true.

#10 Victor Quiones Raped Tarzan Boy At Gunpoint
HTM: Thinks it’s false because Victor just paid wrestlers money when he wanted to fuck them.

#11 Dusty Rhodes Booked Rick Steiner To Beat Ric Flair At Starrcade In 20 Seconds
Raven: Probably true because Dusty would want to do that to Flair.

#12 Paul Boesch Did A Jewish Champion Gimmick Until A Jewish Magazine Writer Walked In On Him In The Shower And Saw He Wasn’t Circumcised
HTM: Unsure because that was before he was born.
Raven: False because he’s pretty sure Paul never left Texas and there is no way they’d do a Jewish wrestling gimmick there.

#13 Jimmy Snuka Murdered A Woman In A Hotel Room And Vince McMahon Got Him Out Of Charges
HTM: Believes it is 100% false because nobody ever mentioned it in his WWF stay and he’s never seen anything about it other than one magazine article in Penthouse and rumors of it on the internet, neither of which are good sources. The only thing he heard from anybody was that he had a girlfriend who committed suicide by jumping off of a building and that’s how the rumor got started.
Raven: Thinks it sounds like an urban legend. He thinks Jimmy Snuka is too nice to murder anyone. Yeah, it’s never the nice, quiet ones..........*ahem*.

#14 Raven Got Caught In A Hotel Room With A 15 Year Old Becky Bayless
Raven: He shared a room one night with Joel Gertner’s wife who allowed then-ECW Rat Bayless to sleep in there as well. Joel Gertner got pissed off that his wife was spending time with Raven and called the cops to claim Raven was having sex with a 15 year old to get revenge. Raven got interrogated about it but then let him go because they believed he was innocent a few hours later.
HTM: “You did break in at Lawler’s territory!”

#15 Sabu Ate Out A Valet In A Indie Show Locker Room And When A Fellow Wrestler Asked Him If It Was Good He Said “Smell My Moustache”
HTM: False because Sabu is always outside smoking weed and never in locker rooms.

#16 Johnny Valentine Hid Shit In Every Hotel Room He Stayed At
Raven: Has heard that is true.
HTM: It’s probably true, and he caught Greg pissing inside of hotel ice chests which made him never want to take hotel ice again.

#17 Shawn Michaels Brought Three Rats Back To His Hotel Room, Ordered Them To Get On Their Knees, Pulled Out His Dick And Pissed In Their Mouths
HTM: “Marty Jannetty would do that.”

#18 Bruiser Brody Was Going To Do A Shoot Run-In On Hulk Hogan At The First Wrestlemania
Raven: False because a shoot run-in is a oxymoron and Brody didn’t care about the WWF enough to want to ruin their show.
HTM: False for the same reason Raven said.

#19 Gagne Offered Iron Sheik $100,000 To Break Hulk Hogan’s Legs During Their WWF Match
Raven: Iron Sheik swears it’s true but he isn’t sure.
HTM: “Maybe if they paid him in gimmick.”

#20 The Clique Shit In Jerry Lawler’s Crown At The 1994 Royal Rumble
HTM: Lawler did get his crown shat in while in the WWF but he isn’t sure if The Clique did it.
Raven: True and they sent a memo around to the WWF roster demanding they stop shitting in Jerry Lawler’s crown people did it so much. A lot of people bitter at Lawler for their Memphis pay days were the ones who did it.

#21 Taka Michinoku Fucked Sunny While Chris Candido Watched
Raven: “Well, Candido probably didn’t watch....”
HTM: “Poor Chris. Good guys finish last or they die first. And Jake Roberts is going to live forever. So will Jim Neidhardt.”

#22 Ronnie P. Gossett Paid To Blow Buff Bagwell
HTM: False, but Gossett has done things like that to other wrestlers, but not Buff.
Raven: Agrees it is false.

#23 Wolfie D Was Selling PG-13 Pictures That Bill Dundee Demanded Money From And Wolfie Pulled A Knife On Him
HTM: Doesn’t believe Wolfie would pull a knife on anybody but JC Ice probably would or maybe Bill pulled a knife on them since he once pulled a gun on Randy Savage.

#24 Moolah And Mae Young Are Lesbian Lovers
HTM: Hopes it’s false because it’s disgusting to think about.
Raven: Loves Moolah & Mae’s work, especially when Mae gave birth to a hand on Raw which he marked out for.

#25 Brian Christopher Tried To Get Eddie Guerrero To Party With Him After Eddie Got Sober
HTM: Possibly true because Brian is a party boy.

#26 Pedro Morales Pawned His WWF Title
HTM: False but Nick Bockwinkel sold the AWA belt in Japan.

#27 Tammy Sytch Likes Having Phone Sex With Indie Workers
HTM: “Tammy isn’t one to phone it in.”

#28 The Colorado Kid Paid To Win The NWA Title
HTM: Probably true because many other champs including Ric Flair paid to get some of NWA title runs. And Honky doesn’t blame anybody for doing that because he’d make a deal with Vince to get a title run in exchange for half of his earnings.

#29 Kevin Von Erich Got A Woman To Take 11 Year Old Chris Von Erich’s Virginity
HTM: Probably true because Chris Von Erich was involved in the party scene younger than anybody else he’s ever heard of.

#30 Curt Hennig Shit Under The Ring When He Was Waiting With Scott Norton To Do A Nitro Run-In
Raven: True and it made Norton vomit all over himself.

#31 Bill Watts Pissed Off Of The CNN Towers
HTM: Definitely true.

#32 Eric Bischoff Admitted He Paid For Strippers At Atlanta’s Gold Club To Have Sex With His Wife While He Watched
HTM: True because that court testimony was on the news.

#33 Raven Didn’t Wear Clothes Backstage In TNA Until Someone Complained That Dixie Carter Would See Him Naked
Raven: “True, I am a nudist.”
HTM: Hates it when women or families come into wrestling locker rooms. If you can’t handle male wrestler nudity, stay out of a wrestling locker room.

#34 Steve Austin Had Heat With Raven Because He Walked Around Naked In Front Of Debra And He Thought Raven Was Showing Off In Front Of His Wife
Raven: True but it was unintentional. But even funnier than that was the time he worked a 3PW show and gang bang porn star/owner Jasmine St. Claire got mad at him for being naked in front of her which he thinks is hilarious since she fucked hundreds of men in one day.
HTM: He also worked a show with Jasmine and was with Virgil when Jasmine came in the locker room and he was uncomfortable getting naked in front of her until Honky explained to him who she was.

#35 JBL Tied Up A Wrestler In The Locker Room And Threatened To Rape Him As He Cried As The Locker Room Laughed
Raven: True and the wrestler was Brian Christopher.
HTM: Confirms it was indeed Brian Christopher, but wishes JBL did it to Jerry Lawler.

#36 David Flair Quit IWA Puerto Rico Because Victor Quiones Broke Into His Room And Jerked Off In His Face
HTM & Raven: Unsure.
Rob Feinstein: Thinks it’s true because Ric Flair sought out Victor for a fight when the WWE had a show in Puerto Rico.

#37 Brian Knobbs Was Fined For Farting Near Miss Elizabeth
HTM: True, he was fined $7,000 when Savage flipped out about it. Knobbs didn’t know Savage and Liz were behind him in an airport when he farted on her, making it the most expensive fart ever.

#38 Chris Jericho Beat Up Bill Goldberg In A Backstage Shoot Fight
Raven: True. Goldberg jumped Jericho because he was pissed about something Jericho said about him in a promo and Jericho kept wrestling him to the ground which killed Goldberg’s bad ass status backstage since Jericho isn’t a bad ass and is much smaller than Goldberg.

The mention of backstage fights makes Honky want to clear up rumors Dynamite Kid started in his book about kicking his ass until he cried. HTM says that Dynamite Kid talked a good game, but unless he was sucker punching someone like he did to Jacques Rougeau he wasn’t beating up anybody. Honky said to Jimmy Hart after a successful house show gate “We paid our rent tonight”, but Dynamite Kid overheard him and thought he said “We paid the boys rent tonight” which pissed him off since he had a Napoleonic complex made worse by his roid rage and heavy drinking so he tried to pick a fight with Honky over it for a few nights backstage. HTM says he confronted Dynamite Kid about it and he backed down saying they didn’t have any heat and Jimmy Hart overheard this to back his story up, but Dynamite Kid still goes around telling people to this day that they did fight. Then one time Honky was doing a tour of England and the British fans were taunting him about Dynamite Kid’s claims and he pissed them off even more by saying “What happened to Dynamite Kid he had coming to him.” Honky says he doesn’t care that people talk shit about him like that because any publicity is good publicity. Raven says this is the end of volume one and they’ll be back soon with another one of these. End Shoot.

Some very amusing moments between the two and I’d love more volumes of these. Amazing that Honky hijacked the shoot from Raven who is never out-talked by anybody. Although he did sound pretty hoarse so maybe he was sick.

Peace, Love & Seven Grand Farts - AWC